Need help understanding exists x forall y vs forall x exists y. My understanding is that for exists x forall y, there can only be one x value that is true for every single y value. Meaning theres only one x value (which cannot be changed) for every single different y value.

Paul Reilly

Paul Reilly

Answered question

2022-09-07

Need help understanding x y v s x y
My understanding is that for x y, there can only be one x value that is true for every single y value. Meaning theres only one x value (which cannot be changed) for every single different y value. The statement x y ( p ( x , y ) ) is true when there is one x value (lets say x = 0) that is true for y = 2 , 1 , 0 , 1 , 2,... (for every single y). Correct me if I am wrong but this is my understanding of this notation.
And now my understanding for the second notation x y ( p ( x , y ) ) is that for every x value, there exists a y such that p(x,y). Meaning for every x value ( x = 2 , 1 , 0 , 1 , 2 , . . .) there can be a different y value for each x value so that the statement is true.
I dont really know how to explain this well but I'll try to summarize my understanding. If the notation is x y then theres only one x that cannot be changed that is true for every y. If the notation is x y then the y value doesnt have to be the same y value for every x value. Meaning for every x value there can be a y value that is different than another y value for another x value.

Answer & Explanation

Yaritza Cardenas

Yaritza Cardenas

Beginner2022-09-08Added 20 answers

Step 1
Your understanding is correct, with the following remark.
Step 2
For x y : p ( x , y ), your phrasing is not consistent. Sometimes you say 'there can be only one', but in other cases 'there is one value'. The interpretation is the second one: there is (at least) one value for x such that p(x,y) for all y. The same x for all y, you're right there and that's the crucial part, but it is possible that there is an x x such that also p(x′,y) for all y.
Mohammed Farley

Mohammed Farley

Beginner2022-09-09Added 15 answers

Step 1
As a side note, the (mostly standard) notation for there exists exactly one unique thing is to add a ! to your modifier ! x : p ( x ) means there exists one unique x that makes p true, for example if p(x) was the statement x + 3 = 7, there does indeed exist exactly one value that makes it true, x = 4.
Step 2
We can do ! with the existing notation, it is just shorthand notation for
( x ) : [ p ( x ) ( y ) : p ( y ) x = y ]
Without the ! you get at LEAST one.

Do you have a similar question?

Recalculate according to your conditions!

New Questions in Discrete math

Ask your question.
Get an expert answer.

Let our experts help you. Answer in as fast as 15 minutes.

Didn't find what you were looking for?